Discussion:
Debian fork
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g***@riseup.net
2014-10-19 23:20:38 UTC
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Just in case you haven't seen this elsewhere:

http://debianfork.org/
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Martinx - ジェームズ
2014-10-20 22:48:46 UTC
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If this Debian Fork doesn't make use of:

systemd
dbus
pam
gnome

And uses EFL + E19, then, I'm in!

I'm sure that there is room for a new distro, that will sit in the middle
of Debian 7 and Slackware... ;-)

Cheers!
Post by g***@riseup.net
http://debianfork.org/
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Jerry Stuckle
2014-10-21 01:46:52 UTC
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Post by Martinx - ジェームズ
systemd
dbus
pam
gnome
And uses EFL + E19, then, I'm in!
I'm sure that there is room for a new distro, that will sit in the
middle of Debian 7 and Slackware... ;-)
Cheers!
I have no problem with pam - I use it for several different
authentications. But systemd I can definitely do without.

Jerry
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Martinx - ジェームズ
2014-10-21 03:23:41 UTC
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Me too Jerry...

I'm fine with PAM, I use pam-automount, pam-sssd, pam-nss, and a few other
things... My only intention was to point the other side of this
"spectrum"... I'm seeing that Slackware is there, far away from Debian (and
happy)... And now Debian is getting too close to RedHat (never like it),
so, disabling it (or removing it - PAM) was just an idea to show a point of
view, so people can see the two extremes more easily...

Like this:

"Linux Distro Spectrum"

redhat (shit, shit, shit) <-----> debian (dbus, pam, systemd, systemd-udev)
<--------------------------------------------------> slackware (no dbus, no
pam, no systemd, udev optional? I don't know for sure)...


We need to "pull" Debian away from RedHat, if not, why not just use RedHat
instead?! I'm with Debian because I do NOT like RedHat and its "derivatives
/ ideas / stuff / things". Now that Debian is becoming a RedHat-Like distro
through this systemd-scam (but with dpkg, instead of rpm), Debian is
loosing its point, its meaning of existence (at least for me, it is, and
I'm not alone thinking about this).

We cannot let that happen! Can we?!

My problem with systemd started when they engulfed udev and "transformed"
it into "systemd-udev" (pure marketing), now, we'll need to take udev back.
Otherwise, systemd, because of udev, *will be a requiremen*t, like it or
not. Even Slackware, if its users really uses udev, it will require systemd
sources there.

So, if we take udev back, a light appears at the end of the tunnel.

If systemd was just like uselessd, awesome ideas and minimal / sane base,
cgroups process support and etc, slim-based design, if you know what I
mean, then, I would like to make the init switch! *Au contraire*, if
systemd is an elephant in the room, *and it is*, everybody knows that,
then, no, thanks. I don't want it. If I needed CoreOS, then, I was using it.

The entire point of a "INIT Replacement" debate was supposed to be JUST
that, a init replacement decision. But systemd isn't just a new init system
(uselessd seems to be, think about it). Instead, it is spreading itself
into Debian in a very disturbing way. Totally outside of the "init system"
scope. Something definitely is wrong...

I'm fine with uselessd + new udev. Wouldn't that be enough?!

Best!
Thiago
Post by Jerry Stuckle
Post by Martinx - ジェームズ
systemd
dbus
pam
gnome
And uses EFL + E19, then, I'm in!
I'm sure that there is room for a new distro, that will sit in the
middle of Debian 7 and Slackware... ;-)
Cheers!
I have no problem with pam - I use it for several different
authentications. But systemd I can definitely do without.
Jerry
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Peter Nieman
2014-10-21 11:06:10 UTC
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Post by Martinx - ジェームズ
systemd
dbus
pam
gnome
And uses EFL + E19, then, I'm in!
As far as I am concerned, you can add cups and a few other things to
this list, too. And the word "udev" doesn't have alltogether positive
connotations for me either.

Many thanks to golinux for sharing the link.

p.
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Doug
2014-10-21 15:53:10 UTC
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Post by Martinx - ジェームズ
systemd
dbus
pam
gnome
And uses EFL + E19, then, I'm in!
As far as I am concerned, you can add cups and a few other things to this list, too. And the word "udev" doesn't have alltogether positive connotations for me either.
Many thanks to golinux for sharing the link.
p.
What do you suggest instead of cups? Or do you not print?

--doug
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Peter Nieman
2014-10-21 16:46:36 UTC
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Post by Doug
What do you suggest instead of cups? Or do you not print?
I'm using good old lpr with a self-made GUI. I consider cups an obese
replacement of something I never had a problem with.
But even though I don't have cups, I can't get rid of libcups2. If I try
to remove it, aptitude wants to remove 32 other packages. Crazy, isn't it?

p.
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Florent Peterschmitt
2014-10-21 17:18:33 UTC
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Post by Peter Nieman
Post by Doug
What do you suggest instead of cups? Or do you not print?
I'm using good old lpr with a self-made GUI. I consider cups an obese
replacement of something I never had a problem with.
But even though I don't have cups, I can't get rid of libcups2. If I try
to remove it, aptitude wants to remove 32 other packages. Crazy, isn't it?
p.
That's the "problem" of packages. If other users want to use CUPS with
their softwares, *shared* libraries are needed.

I mostly read this list, and I see most of people who should use Gentoo
or Slackware rather than Debian

Miles Fidelman
2014-10-21 18:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florent Peterschmitt
Post by Peter Nieman
Post by Doug
What do you suggest instead of cups? Or do you not print?
I'm using good old lpr with a self-made GUI. I consider cups an obese
replacement of something I never had a problem with.
But even though I don't have cups, I can't get rid of libcups2. If I try
to remove it, aptitude wants to remove 32 other packages. Crazy, isn't it?
p.
That's the "problem" of packages. If other users want to use CUPS with
their softwares, *shared* libraries are needed.
I mostly read this list, and I see most of people who should use Gentoo
or Slackware rather than Debian…
For over a decade, Debian was a great choice of distro - particularly
for servers. Install packages for a base system, install from upstream
source for specialty items, maybe tweak configurations and init scripts
a bit to address unique requirements. There's a reason that a lot of
new stuff is released/packaged for Debian first (I'm thinking of a lot
of virtualization and cluster software, in particular).

systemd changes all of that - for pretty much all major distros except
slackware and gentoo -- and given that these are largely source-based
distros, the real choice is to go all the way to LFS and bite the bullet
of managing dependencies manually, and waiting for compiles

Miles Fidelman
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In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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st
2014-10-21 10:39:11 UTC
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Post by g***@riseup.net
http://debianfork.org/
Thanks a lot, first time I knew I'm not the only long-bearded SA
with an attitude.

All y'all going to fork, I salute you.
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Best nightdreams.
Serge Tiunov, "Do you really think you think
http://e-head.net when you do think you do?"
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maderios
2014-10-21 12:44:14 UTC
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Post by g***@riseup.net
http://debianfork.org/
Hi
Fork comes from the same guy
Original info (french, sorry)
https://linuxfr.org/users/almin/journaux/un-fork-de-debian-a-cause-de-systemd
Approximate translation:
"Posted by Misc (personal page) on 20/10/14 at 5:16
So, as I am a curious guy, I wondered who is behind the fork.
So I searched debianfork (after a shot whois and co, pointing to
dyne.org a Debian variant for multimedia). And I fell on the draft of
the site lab.dyne.org:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ig5xnArsuqwJ:https://lab.dyne.org/DebianFork+&cd=9&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a
pointing to Jaromil as editor. The same Jaromil has a wikipedia article
to his name. And who posted on twitter about the fork:
https://twitter.com/jaromil
and various calls to refuse systemd.
A little research, we see that it has a dedicated linux distributions
purify page:
https://lab.dyne.org/GnuLinuxPurification "
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Maderios
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Gavin
2014-10-21 17:33:26 UTC
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Post by Florent Peterschmitt
Post by Peter Nieman
Post by Doug
What do you suggest instead of cups? Or do you not print?
I'm using good old lpr with a self-made GUI. I consider cups an obese
replacement of something I never had a problem with.
But even though I don't have cups, I can't get rid of libcups2. If I try
to remove it, aptitude wants to remove 32 other packages. Crazy, isn't it?
p.
That's the "problem" of packages. If other users want to use CUPS with
their softwares, *shared* libraries are needed.
I mostly read this list, and I see most of people who should use Gentoo
or Slackware rather than Debian…
That appears to be the reality hitting me too at the moment, busy
contemplating that very thing...

It is also quite obvious that the larger Debian community are mostly
against this switch to systemd, so I am hoping that the community
pulls together to at least make this just another option, but
definitely not the default.

If that were to happen I too would support this fork, although I may
already be too happy running Gentoo/Slackware/*BSD/Something else.

Come on Debian, you should know better!

:)
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Don Armstrong
2014-10-21 18:29:58 UTC
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This thread is off topic for -user. If you want to discuss this further,
please use
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic.

If you want more information about systemd, see https://wiki.debian.org/systemd.

If you want to avoid using systemd, simply don't install the
systemd-sysv package. If something requires systemd-sysv and doesn't
have an alternative dependency on systemd-shim, please file a bug using
reportbug if one hasn't already been filed.

If you wish to discuss forking Debian, please do so using non-project
resources.
--
Don Armstrong http://www.donarmstrong.com

"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
For those who do not, none is possible."
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