Discussion:
wheezy drive recognition?
Gene Heskett
2015-04-15 02:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Greetings drive guru's;

I have a 3 drive hot swap cage in my machine for a couple years now, and no it is NOT setup as a raid of any kind.

It has had a triplet of 1T seagate drives in it since installing it.

My main boot drive had a 10.04-4 LTS Ubuntu install on it, but the drive
went read only a couple months back, so I swapped the top 2 and put
wheezy on what is now /dev/sda.

I eventually had copied off what I needed from the old drive so I removed
it, leaving slot 2 empty while I ordered up 2 more drives from
TigerDirect, but had to settle for the 2Tb version this time.

Tonight I cut the blisterpack off the first of the 2Tb drives and slid
it into slot 2.

Wheezy, with "SMP Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux" kernel running
cannot connect to it, doing this from /var/log/messages:

Apr 14 21:14:33 coyote kernel: [1098002.318613] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:39 coyote kernel: [1098008.240015] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:14:43 coyote kernel: [1098012.328022] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:49 coyote kernel: [1098018.256019] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:14:53 coyote kernel: [1098022.344027] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:59 coyote kernel: [1098028.264018] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)

Followed by quite a few megabytes of this:
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934065] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934070] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal Request [current]
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934074] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934081] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935512] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935515] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal Request [current]
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935518] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935522] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00

I got the impression that it was not even spinning up.
So I plugged the old, read-only drive in to see if the slot was bad,
but it signs on like this:
Apr 14 21:35:05 coyote kernel: [1099234.688032] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:35:11 coyote kernel: [1099240.608030] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:35:15 coyote kernel: [1099244.704026] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.588034] ata2: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 300)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.596577] ata2.00: ATA-8: ST31000340AS, SD1A, max UDMA/133
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.596582] ata2.00: 1953525168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth 31/32)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612502] ata2.00: configured for UDMA/133
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612512] ata2: EH complete
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612633] scsi 1:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA ST31000340AS SD1A PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612851] sd 1:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612895] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/931 GiB)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612993] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Write Protect is off
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.613034] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.665063] sde: sde1 sde2 sde3
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.665558] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Attached SCSI disk

Essentially normal except if I try to write to it, it will go read-only
immediately.

These 2 new drives are sata-3, 6Gb/sec drives. From the logs, the driver
had set it down to 1.5Gbs in an attempt to talk to it, but obviously
failed. The motherboard book only claims 3Gbs.

Have I a duff drive, or, is either this kernel, or this Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe
motherboard incapable of dealing with a 6Gb/sec, 2Tb drive with 4096 byte
physical sectors? Or maybe a drive that needs a firmware update? All of
those 1T's needed it before they settled down and Just Worked for several
years.

FWIW, the 1Tb drive as my main boot, is also a 4096 byte physical sector
drive and seems to be ok AFTER I finally got an "aligned" partitioning
scheme setup.

Basically with a pair of drives this big, I am walking on brand new dirt
here.

Opinions, swags anybody?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Christensen
2015-04-15 03:27:36 UTC
Permalink
I have a 3 drive hot swap cage ...
wheezy on what is now /dev/sda. ...
Tonight I cut the blisterpack off the first of the 2Tb drives and slid
it into slot 2. ...
Wheezy, with "SMP Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux" kernel running
cannot connect to it, doing this from /var/log/messages: ...
These 2 new drives are sata-3, 6Gb/sec drives. From the logs, the driver
had set it down to 1.5Gbs in an attempt to talk to it, but obviously
failed. The motherboard book only claims 3Gbs. ...
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard ...
My one Asus motherboard (M2NPV-VM) worked fine, right up until the day
it died. If yours still works, I would expect it to work with new
Seagate SATA 3 HDD's.


Disconnect all drives and the cage.


Get a power supply tester and test your power supply.


Test your memory:

http://www.memtest.org/


Take an image of your system drive and back up all of your data.


Install one new HDD in an internal drive bay. Connect it to a known
good power cable, and a known good SATA port on the motherboard using a
known good SATA cable. Boot the HDD manufacturer diagnostic CD and run
all the utilities. For Seagate, I use SeaTools for DOS:

http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seatools-dos-master/


If the HDD passes all the tests, boot a Debian Wheezy installation CD,
install Debian on the HDD, boot the HDD, log in, and see if there are
errors in the logs.


If Debian works correctly, move the HDD to the cage, connect the cage,
and try again.


If you run into problems, post the details.


David
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-15 03:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
I have a 3 drive hot swap cage ...
wheezy on what is now /dev/sda. ...
Tonight I cut the blisterpack off the first of the 2Tb drives and
slid it into slot 2. ...
Wheezy, with "SMP Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux" kernel
running cannot connect to it, doing this from /var/log/messages: ...
These 2 new drives are sata-3, 6Gb/sec drives. From the logs, the
driver had set it down to 1.5Gbs in an attempt to talk to it, but
obviously failed. The motherboard book only claims 3Gbs. ...
Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard ...
My one Asus motherboard (M2NPV-VM) worked fine, right up until the day
it died. If yours still works, I would expect it to work with new
Seagate SATA 3 HDD's.
Disconnect all drives and the cage.
Get a power supply tester and test your power supply.
I am monitoring it right now with gkrellm, its good.
Post by David Christensen
http://www.memtest.org/
3 full cycles about 6 weeks back before I installed wheezy.>
Post by David Christensen
Take an image of your system drive and back up all of your data.
Amanda does that nightly.
Post by David Christensen
Install one new HDD in an internal drive bay. Connect it to a known
good power cable, and a known good SATA port on the motherboard using
a known good SATA cable. Boot the HDD manufacturer diagnostic CD and
http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/item/seatools-dos-master/
Ok.
Post by David Christensen
If the HDD passes all the tests, boot a Debian Wheezy installation CD,
install Debian on the HDD, boot the HDD, log in, and see if there are
errors in the logs.
If Debian works correctly, move the HDD to the cage, connect the cage,
and try again.
If you run into problems, post the details.
Will do, thanks.
Post by David Christensen
David
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Wright
2015-04-15 15:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings drive guru's;
I have a 3 drive hot swap cage in my machine for a couple years now, and no it is NOT setup as a raid of any kind.
It has had a triplet of 1T seagate drives in it since installing it.
My main boot drive had a 10.04-4 LTS Ubuntu install on it, but the drive
went read only a couple months back, so I swapped the top 2 and put
wheezy on what is now /dev/sda.
I eventually had copied off what I needed from the old drive so I removed
it, leaving slot 2 empty while I ordered up 2 more drives from
TigerDirect, but had to settle for the 2Tb version this time.
Tonight I cut the blisterpack off the first of the 2Tb drives and slid
it into slot 2.
Wheezy, with "SMP Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux" kernel running
Apr 14 21:14:33 coyote kernel: [1098002.318613] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:39 coyote kernel: [1098008.240015] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:14:43 coyote kernel: [1098012.328022] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:49 coyote kernel: [1098018.256019] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:14:53 coyote kernel: [1098022.344027] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:14:59 coyote kernel: [1098028.264018] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934065] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934070] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal Request [current]
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934074] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934081] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935512] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935515] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal Request [current]
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935518] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935522] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00
I got the impression that it was not even spinning up.
I don't know what you did 50 seconds after you plugged in your new
drive, but those sr0 messages look as if you/the system tried to read
an empty DVD/CD drive.

If you get no more lines like the ones below, (ata/sd) then it would
seem it hasn't recognised what's on the new disk.

If it's straight from the blister pack, what might you find on it?
(All the naked drives I've acquired have been second-hand.) Big disks
I've bought recently have NTFS filesystems on them.
Post by Gene Heskett
So I plugged the old, read-only drive in to see if the slot was bad,
Apr 14 21:35:05 coyote kernel: [1099234.688032] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:35:11 coyote kernel: [1099240.608030] ata2: link is slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:35:15 coyote kernel: [1099244.704026] ata2: hard resetting link
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.588034] ata2: SATA link up 1.5 Gbps (SStatus 113 SControl 300)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.596577] ata2.00: ATA-8: ST31000340AS, SD1A, max UDMA/133
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.596582] ata2.00: 1953525168 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 NCQ (depth 31/32)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612502] ata2.00: configured for UDMA/133
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612512] ata2: EH complete
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612633] scsi 1:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA ST31000340AS SD1A PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612851] sd 1:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg5 type 0
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612895] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/931 GiB)
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.612993] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Write Protect is off
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.613034] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.665063] sde: sde1 sde2 sde3
Apr 14 21:35:16 coyote kernel: [1099245.665558] sd 1:0:0:0: [sde] Attached SCSI disk
Cheers,
David.
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-15 17:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
Post by Gene Heskett
Greetings drive guru's;
I have a 3 drive hot swap cage in my machine for a couple years now,
and no it is NOT setup as a raid of any kind.
It has had a triplet of 1T seagate drives in it since installing it.
My main boot drive had a 10.04-4 LTS Ubuntu install on it, but the
drive went read only a couple months back, so I swapped the top 2
and put wheezy on what is now /dev/sda.
I eventually had copied off what I needed from the old drive so I
removed it, leaving slot 2 empty while I ordered up 2 more drives
from TigerDirect, but had to settle for the 2Tb version this time.
Tonight I cut the blisterpack off the first of the 2Tb drives and
slid it into slot 2.
Wheezy, with "SMP Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u2 x86_64 GNU/Linux" kernel
Apr 14 21:14:33 coyote kernel: [1098002.318613] ata2: hard resetting
link Apr 14 21:14:39 coyote kernel: [1098008.240015] ata2: link is
slow to respond, please be patient (ready=-19) Apr 14 21:14:43
coyote kernel: [1098012.328022] ata2: hard resetting link Apr 14
21:14:49 coyote kernel: [1098018.256019] ata2: link is slow to
respond, please be patient (ready=-19) Apr 14 21:14:53 coyote
kernel: [1098022.344027] ata2: hard resetting link Apr 14 21:14:59
coyote kernel: [1098028.264018] ata2: link is slow to respond,
please be patient (ready=-19)
Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934065] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0]
Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE Apr 14 21:15:27
[1098055.934074] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for
this track Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.934081] sr
4:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 Apr 14
hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote
kernel: [1098055.935515] sr 4:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal
Request [current] Apr 14 21:15:27 coyote kernel: [1098055.935518] sr
4:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track Apr 14
Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00
I got the impression that it was not even spinning up.
I don't know what you did 50 seconds after you plugged in your new
drive, but those sr0 messages look as if you/the system tried to read
an empty DVD/CD drive.
I tend to think the drive caused udev to lose its mind, but thats just a
SWAG at this point as I have not powered down and attached the drive to
another pair of currently unused cables hanging out that would be
sata-4. 5 is indeed a dvd writer If I properly recall which cable is
plugged in where. From what I am seeing, the cables could be swapped
and I don't recall doing it. Short term memory would be to blame in
that case, I'll need to get out a flashlight and verify in any event
since I don't trust my memory of something 3+ years old anyway.
Post by David Wright
If you get no more lines like the ones below, (ata/sd) then it would
seem it hasn't recognised what's on the new disk.
If it's straight from the blister pack, what might you find on it?
(All the naked drives I've acquired have been second-hand.) Big disks
I've bought recently have NTFS filesystems on them.
Generally, I would assume it has an NTFS on it, and that is an option
rarely enabled in one of my home-brew kernels. This one however is a
Wheezy supplied kernel. A quick lsmod does not disclose any NTFS stuff
loaded after the log explosion.

I think I'll burn that cd of the seagate dos utils and see what it says,
which will entail a power down reboot if I put it on the spare cables,
or something along those lines that will force me to do a P.D. reboot.
Uptime is currently about 12 days. And we have at least 10 days before
Jessie is declared, so I haven't been in a life or death hurry. Since I
woke up this morning, which is a good sign at my age, I'll put that off
a few hours. ;-)

[...]
Post by David Wright
Cheers,
David.
Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-16 03:54:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday 15 April 2015 13:37:43 Gene Heskett wrote:
[...]
Post by Gene Heskett
I think I'll burn that cd of the seagate dos utils and see what it
says, which will entail a power down reboot if I put it on the spare
cables, or something along those lines that will force me to do a P.D.
reboot. Uptime is currently about 12 days. And we have at least 10
days before Jessie is declared, so I haven't been in a life or death
hurry. Since I woke up this morning, which is a good sign at my age,
I'll put that off a few hours. ;-)
I finally found enough of a round tuit to burn the cd and try it.
Seatools found and tested all 3 drives, no hits no runs no errors.

But I am now smarter on two fronts.

1. DON"T leave your cell phone plugged in when rebooting, you get drive C
has no boot capability messages from the bios, while I am shaking my
head and muttering that famous 3 letter acronym.

So I wasted several hours letting it go thru one cycle of memtest, then
doing a bios reset & re-putz with some on the options before in dawned
on me my tracfone is still plugged in AND a POS. Turned off, it still
shows up as a 50 megabyte removeable disk! Unforgivable idiocy.

2. that solved & rebooted, with one of the 2T's in the sdb slot, gparted
said it had NO partition table! So I expect the 2nd one has no partition
table on it either. So I partitioned and labeled it half & half as /home
and /opt. Reboot, lshw and blkid are now happy as clams.

So, progress from the WV version of Lake Woebegone. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Christensen
2015-04-16 06:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
I finally found enough of a round tuit to burn the cd and try it.
Seatools found and tested all 3 drives, no hits no runs no errors. ...
1. DON"T leave your cell phone plugged in ...
2. that solved & rebooted, with one of the 2T's in the sdb slot, gparted
said it had NO partition table! ...
So, progress from the WV version of Lake Woebegone. :)
It's good to hear that your hardware seems okay and you are making
progress. Please let us know what you find next.


David
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-16 14:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
Post by Gene Heskett
I finally found enough of a round tuit to burn the cd and try it.
Seatools found and tested all 3 drives, no hits no runs no errors.
... 1. DON"T leave your cell phone plugged in ...
2. that solved & rebooted, with one of the 2T's in the sdb slot,
gparted said it had NO partition table! ...
So, progress from the WV version of Lake Woebegone. :)
It's good to hear that your hardware seems okay and you are making
progress. Please let us know what you find next.
David
With my history of mis-behaving install partitioners, you can bet the
farm on that! ;-)

I think the last things I do before starting the install, is to rsync the
currant /home and /opt directories to the new drive I just partitioned
and formatted as ext4. Then I'll have a several hour battle trying to
expunge network-manager and making my networking Just Work(TM).

Then edit fstab to mount the LABEL = /opt drive on top of the /opt
directory is easy. But Jessie will have installed some things in /home
and I am not convinced we have a mechanism/script I could apply to
update the image of wheezy's home on the LABEL=/home partition that will
not at that time, be mounted over the /home directory of the Jessie
install on the other to be main boot drive.

Perhaps that might be another of rsync's talents, only updating whats
different? Man page study time I think. And more caffiene, I'm a quart
low yet...

And one other question: Can the installer deal with a drive that has no
partition table on it? I know for a fact that as it stands for wheezy,
that it will not accept, even if it can see it, another partitioners
partition tables. It absolutely has to write its own table and nothing
a human can concoct will ever suit it. Frankly, debian needs to get an
alaskan divorce from whatever its called and use gparted and be done
with it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Wright
2015-04-16 16:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Then edit fstab to mount the LABEL = /opt drive on top of the /opt
directory is easy. But Jessie will have installed some things in /home
and I am not convinced we have a mechanism/script I could apply to
update the image of wheezy's home on the LABEL=/home partition that will
not at that time, be mounted over the /home directory of the Jessie
install on the other to be main boot drive.
I can't parse this, sorry.

I can only guess that you *might* be referring to the situation where,
by accident or design, you leave a separate /home partition unmounted
while installing Debian on the root partition. On rebooting, d-i will
be found to have placed /home/<first-user>/{.bash_logout,.bashrc,.profile}
in / but it's a simple matter to boot single/recovery, move/remove
<first-user>/{.bash_logout,.bashrc,.profile} (if they offend you), and
mount your home partition on the now empty /home (adjusting fstab to suit).

If that's not the case, please ignore the above rather than
re-expounding what you really meant.
Post by Gene Heskett
And one other question: Can the installer deal with a drive that has no
partition table on it? I know for a fact that as it stands for wheezy,
that it will not accept, even if it can see it, another partitioners
partition tables. It absolutely has to write its own table and nothing
a human can concoct will ever suit it. Frankly, debian needs to get an
alaskan divorce from whatever its called and use gparted and be done
with it.
I don't know the expression "alaskan divorce". Could it be where you
walk from the divorce court straight back to the registry office to
get re-married?

Cheers,
David.
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Curt
2015-04-16 16:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
I don't know the expression "alaskan divorce". Could it be where you
walk from the divorce court straight back to the registry office to
get re-married?
I'm not familiar with the expression either, but I think it refers to a
sudden, brutal separation of the kind provoked by a grizzly bear when
it takes a swipe at your head, thus disuniting the latter definitively from
the neck.
Post by David Wright
Cheers,
David.
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-16 16:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
Post by Gene Heskett
Then edit fstab to mount the LABEL = /opt drive on top of the /opt
directory is easy. But Jessie will have installed some things in
/home and I am not convinced we have a mechanism/script I could
apply to update the image of wheezy's home on the LABEL=/home
partition that will not at that time, be mounted over the /home
directory of the Jessie install on the other to be main boot drive.
I can't parse this, sorry.
I can only guess that you *might* be referring to the situation where,
by accident or design, you leave a separate /home partition unmounted
while installing Debian on the root partition. On rebooting, d-i will
be found to have placed
/home/<first-user>/{.bash_logout,.bashrc,.profile} in / but it's a
simple matter to boot single/recovery, move/remove
<first-user>/{.bash_logout,.bashrc,.profile} (if they offend you), and
mount your home partition on the now empty /home (adjusting fstab to suit).
I think you have about covered it. I was more concerned with the X,
kde/tde stuff but you have the idea I believe.
Post by David Wright
If that's not the case, please ignore the above rather than
re-expounding what you really meant.
Post by Gene Heskett
And one other question: Can the installer deal with a drive that
has no partition table on it? I know for a fact that as it stands
for wheezy, that it will not accept, even if it can see it, another
partitioners partition tables. It absolutely has to write its own
table and nothing a human can concoct will ever suit it. Frankly,
debian needs to get an alaskan divorce from whatever its called and
use gparted and be done with it.
I don't know the expression "alaskan divorce". Could it be where you
walk from the divorce court straight back to the registry office to
get re-married?
Aw gee, that expression is at least 30 years older than the internet!

I first heard about it in a letter my mother got from a friend of hers
that had moved to the Anchorage area about 5 years before the quake in
1952. She wrote that in all the carnage the earthquake left that they
had only had 2 Alaskan Divorces in the 3 months or so since the quake.
So mother wrote back for clarification.

Story goes like this:
Couple has been married long enough the honeymoon has slowed some, and
have built a cabin overlooking their mining claim, which between it and
subsistence hunting is feeding them well. But it is, figuratively
speaking, about 75 miles from the neighbors. Used to the long winters
but miss-calculated how many decks of cards, coffee, condoms and tobacco
they would need.

Snowbound since about the first of October, they are out of condoms by
the end of January, out of coffee by the end of February, tobacco by the
middle of March & wore out the last deck of cards too somewhere along
the way. Somewhere around the first of April, before any thaw of
consequence gives them hope for spring, one of them picks up the 30-06
and gets a divorce.

Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Post by David Wright
Cheers,
David.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Wright
2015-04-16 17:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Wright
Post by Gene Heskett
And one other question: Can the installer deal with a drive that
has no partition table on it? I know for a fact that as it stands
for wheezy, that it will not accept, even if it can see it, another
partitioners partition tables. It absolutely has to write its own
table and nothing a human can concoct will ever suit it. Frankly,
debian needs to get an alaskan divorce from whatever its called and
use gparted and be done with it.
I don't know the expression "alaskan divorce". Could it be where you
walk from the divorce court straight back to the registry office to
get re-married?
Aw gee, that expression is at least 30 years older than the internet!
[...]
Post by Gene Heskett
Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Well I typed alaskan into urbandictionary but didn't dare click on
any of the suggestions below!

But my guess was a hint that Debian won't be getting rid of parted just yet.

Cheers,
David.
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Chris Bannister
2015-04-17 12:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Aw gee, that expression is at least 30 years older than the internet!
I first heard about it in a letter my mother got from a friend of hers
that had moved to the Anchorage area about 5 years before the quake in
1952. She wrote that in all the carnage the earthquake left that they
had only had 2 Alaskan Divorces in the 3 months or so since the quake.
So mother wrote back for clarification.
Couple has been married long enough the honeymoon has slowed some, and
have built a cabin overlooking their mining claim, which between it and
subsistence hunting is feeding them well. But it is, figuratively
speaking, about 75 miles from the neighbors. Used to the long winters
but miss-calculated how many decks of cards, coffee, condoms and tobacco
they would need.
Snowbound since about the first of October, they are out of condoms by
the end of January, out of coffee by the end of February, tobacco by the
middle of March & wore out the last deck of cards too somewhere along
the way. Somewhere around the first of April, before any thaw of
consequence gives them hope for spring, one of them picks up the 30-06
and gets a divorce.
Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Still none the wiser. What is a 30-06? What is an Alaskan Divorce?
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Lisi Reisz
2015-04-17 13:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Bannister
Post by Gene Heskett
Aw gee, that expression is at least 30 years older than the internet!
I first heard about it in a letter my mother got from a friend of hers
that had moved to the Anchorage area about 5 years before the quake in
1952. She wrote that in all the carnage the earthquake left that they
had only had 2 Alaskan Divorces in the 3 months or so since the quake.
So mother wrote back for clarification.
Couple has been married long enough the honeymoon has slowed some, and
have built a cabin overlooking their mining claim, which between it and
subsistence hunting is feeding them well. But it is, figuratively
speaking, about 75 miles from the neighbors. Used to the long winters
but miss-calculated how many decks of cards, coffee, condoms and tobacco
they would need.
Snowbound since about the first of October, they are out of condoms by
the end of January, out of coffee by the end of February, tobacco by the
middle of March & wore out the last deck of cards too somewhere along
the way. Somewhere around the first of April, before any thaw of
consequence gives them hope for spring, one of them picks up the 30-06
and gets a divorce.
Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Still none the wiser. What is a 30-06? What is an Alaskan Divorce?
I looked up this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaskan+divorce
<quote>
alaskan divorce isn't defined.
Can you define it?
</quote>

So I tried 30.06 in Google.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=30-06&oq=30-06&aqs=chrome..69i57.1187j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

He probably means this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
When you thnk "Gene" think "guns".

So it rather looks as though an Alaskan Divorce is when a husband shoots his
wife because he is fed up with her. Well, he says one of them here, but it
is the right of husbands to shoot their wives that he used to support in his
signature.

Some of us write to try and be understood.

Lisi
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Chris Bannister
2015-04-17 13:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Chris Bannister
Post by Gene Heskett
Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Still none the wiser. What is a 30-06? What is an Alaskan Divorce?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaskan+divorce
<quote>
alaskan divorce isn't defined.
Can you define it?
</quote>
So I tried 30.06 in Google.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=30-06&oq=30-06&aqs=chrome..69i57.1187j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
When you thnk "Gene" think "guns".
So it rather looks as though an Alaskan Divorce is when a husband shoots his
wife because he is fed up with her. Well, he says one of them here, but it
is the right of husbands to shoot their wives that he used to support in his
signature.
So an Alaskan Divorce is when you destroy something because it annoys
you?

So it would be used in a sentence like "I gave it the old Alaskan
Divorce." ?
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Lisi Reisz
2015-04-17 13:59:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Bannister
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Chris Bannister
Post by Gene Heskett
Told poorly, but that is the classic definition of an Alaskan Divorce.
Still none the wiser. What is a 30-06? What is an Alaskan Divorce?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaskan+divorce
<quote>
alaskan divorce isn't defined.
Can you define it?
</quote>
So I tried 30.06 in Google.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=30-06&oq=30-06&aqs=chrome..69i57.1187j0
j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
When you thnk "Gene" think "guns".
So it rather looks as though an Alaskan Divorce is when a husband shoots
his wife because he is fed up with her. Well, he says one of them here,
but it is the right of husbands to shoot their wives that he used to
support in his signature.
So an Alaskan Divorce is when you destroy something because it annoys
you?
So it would appear. But it is not a term I have met before - and Urban
Dictionary hasn't heard of it.
Post by Chris Bannister
So it would be used in a sentence like "I gave it the old Alaskan
Divorce." ?
??? Your guess is as good as mine. ;-)

Lisi
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David Wright
2015-04-17 16:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Chris Bannister
So an Alaskan Divorce is when you destroy something because it annoys
you?
So it would appear. But it is not a term I have met before - and Urban
Dictionary hasn't heard of it.
Post by Chris Bannister
So it would be used in a sentence like "I gave it the old Alaskan
Divorce." ?
??? Your guess is as good as mine. ;-)
It's probably my fault that this subthread has blossomed because I put
quotation marks round "alaskan divorce". But I *thought* I'd catch flak
for reacting to Gene's pushing on the old partitioner buttons again.
*My* definition was merely to point out (obliquely, I admit) that Gene
wanted the Debian installer to ditch parted, and use (g)parted instead.

My defence (my, I do seem to be getting defensive on this list!) for
being oblique and a tiny bit mischievous was that I had already made a
quite possibly helpful post already. (Helpful by pointing out that
Gene's megabytes of error messages weren't indicating any problem with
the drive, but unhelpfully including 17 lines of excessive quoting,
tut tut.)

Cheers,
David.
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 18:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Wright
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Chris Bannister
So an Alaskan Divorce is when you destroy something because it
annoys you?
So it would appear. But it is not a term I have met before - and
Urban Dictionary hasn't heard of it.
Post by Chris Bannister
So it would be used in a sentence like "I gave it the old Alaskan
Divorce." ?
??? Your guess is as good as mine. ;-)
Its "slanguage" folks! Recongnize it for what it is. Some of this
actually gets into the dictionaries in due time.
Post by David Wright
It's probably my fault that this subthread has blossomed because I put
quotation marks round "alaskan divorce". But I *thought* I'd catch
flak for reacting to Gene's pushing on the old partitioner buttons
again. *My* definition was merely to point out (obliquely, I admit)
that Gene wanted the Debian installer to ditch parted, and use
(g)parted instead.
Thats correct. Gparted is so much easier to use, and can be made to do it
your way, that in comparison, no comparison between the actual
usabilities of the two is possible.
Post by David Wright
My defence (my, I do seem to be getting defensive on this list!) for
being oblique and a tiny bit mischievous was that I had already made a
quite possibly helpful post already. (Helpful by pointing out that
Gene's megabytes of error messages weren't indicating any problem with
the drive, but unhelpfully including 17 lines of excessive quoting,
tut tut.)
Sometimes its making a point, in this case it was raising hell because
there was not in fact a partition table on a brand new drive. I had not
encountered a filesystem that lost its cookies over that so easily
before. I thought, apparently mistakenly, that it might ring a bell
with someone.
Post by David Wright
Cheers,
David.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Wright
2015-04-20 03:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Wright
It's probably my fault that this subthread has blossomed because I put
quotation marks round "alaskan divorce". But I *thought* I'd catch
flak for reacting to Gene's pushing on the old partitioner buttons
again. *My* definition was merely to point out (obliquely, I admit)
that Gene wanted the Debian installer to ditch parted, and use
(g)parted instead.
Thats correct. Gparted is so much easier to use, and can be made to do it
your way, that in comparison, no comparison between the actual
usabilities of the two is possible.
Well there's good news for when you next do battle with the installer
(two weeks must be up around now). Rather than videoing what you do,
you can now easily capture the installation screens, and the log
output from the installer, and even the partitioner (though that's
extremely verbose).

In expert install, if you select network-console in the Installer
Components screen, you can ssh from another box immediately after
configuring the network. You can of course ssh multiple times, and so
have one session doing the actual installing, and another running
tail -f /var/log/syslog

Cheers,
David.
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 17:45:26 UTC
Permalink
On Friday 17 April 2015 09:27:58 Lisi Reisz wrote:
[...]
Post by Lisi Reisz
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaskan+divorce
<quote>
alaskan divorce isn't defined.
Can you define it?
</quote>
So I tried 30.06 in Google.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=30-06&oq=30-06&aqs=chrome..69i57.118
7j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
When you thnk "Gene" think "guns".
So it rather looks as though an Alaskan Divorce is when a husband
shoots his wife because he is fed up with her. Well, he says one of
them here, but it is the right of husbands to shoot their wives that
he used to support in his signature.
That was never my intention Lisi. The sexes could have been interchanged
and it would still have been an equally bad court decision.

The point I think that defines our differences is that when we setup this
government 200+ years ago, history had taught us that power corrupts,
and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Hence what we call the Bill of
Rights was added to our constitution before the individual states would
seriously consider ratifying it. That Bill of Rights, including the
famous 2nd amendment, gave us the tools to change that government by
force if it should get too oppressive. The equally famous 1st (free
speech) gave us the right to talk about how that might be accomplished.

You, Lisi, on the other hand have what is supposed to be a weapon free
society, but in reality you can be mugged and murdered with a baseball
bat on your way to the corner store for a loaf of bread and a pint of
Guinness. Legally, you have no way of fighting back to preserve your
life. If in fighting back, you injure the perp, it is you who have to
pay the legal consequences because he'll sue you.

We read the news here too, when the mainsleeze news sites feel like its
worth reporting. Even the BBC seems to be colored more by reporting on
the media "stars" than on the you and me stuff in ore recent history.

IMO there is something seriously wrong with that whole scene...

Such jerks as do that abound in every society. Neither of us have a
patent on that. And the results are the same, you are dead and the perp
has the 10 lb note that was in your pocket.

In WW-II, we gathered up several thousand of our sporting arms and sent
them to England along with a good supply of ammo so you all had a chance
of fighting for your homeland should Hitler have ordered his troops
across the channel. All were recorded as to who they belonged to so
that there might be a chance that Iowa farmer may have gotten his
fathers prized Parker shotgun, now worth 5 to 10 thousand dollars, back
when the "festivities" were over. But whats Churchill do? He rounds
them all up, loads them on a barge and dumps them in the channel. Some
very finely made, by the best artisans, including some of your Holland
and Holland made double rifles, probably worth 10 million or more as a
group.

There are a few still alive who remember that double cross clearly. My
own grandfather was one who lost a fine Fox double barrel 12 gauge that
way. He just shrugged his shoulders as a good Christian man, but you
had to know he was disappointed, and that should that scenario be
repeated, he would not be so charitable again.

Lisi, your are indeed a dear lady, dinner & drinks are on me should we
ever meet, but both of us are mentally painted, or tainted, depending on
ones point of reference, in the manner of the society we have lived in
all our lives.

Here, the game belongs to the state, but only convicted felons are
precluded from hunting, and that is because they have lost the right to
own such a weapon. Here in WV for instance, and me being a genuine
oldtimer past 65, my drivers license IS my hunting and fishing license,
the only costs are for the trout stamps as that is a federal program.
Post by Lisi Reisz
Some of us write to try and be understood.
And I will plead guilty to being a frustrated teacher. ;-)
Post by Lisi Reisz
Lisi
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Ric Moore
2015-04-17 19:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Here, the game belongs to the state, but only convicted felons are
precluded from hunting,
Can't we take this to Off-Topic ?? This doesn't have one thing to do
with Debian. :( Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 16:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Bannister
Post by Gene Heskett
Aw gee, that expression is at least 30 years older than the
internet!
[...]
Post by Chris Bannister
Still none the wiser. What is a 30-06? What is an Alaskan Divorce?
30-06 is the caliber of a high powered rifle cartridge. Generally a bit
of overkill for deer hunting IMO, from extensive experience. We've now
had it in excess of 100 years and won 2 world wars with it.

And the Alaskan Divorce is a polite term for murder.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Christensen
2015-04-16 17:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
With my history of mis-behaving install partitioners, you can bet the
farm on that! ;-)
I think the last things I do before starting the install, is to rsync the
currant /home and /opt directories to the new drive I just partitioned
and formatted as ext4. Then I'll have a several hour battle trying to
expunge network-manager and making my networking Just Work(TM).
Then edit fstab to mount the LABEL = /opt drive on top of the /opt
directory is easy. But Jessie will have installed some things in /home
and I am not convinced we have a mechanism/script I could apply to
update the image of wheezy's home on the LABEL=/home partition that will
not at that time, be mounted over the /home directory of the Jessie
install on the other to be main boot drive.
Perhaps that might be another of rsync's talents, only updating whats
different? Man page study time I think. And more caffiene, I'm a quart
low yet...
And one other question: Can the installer deal with a drive that has no
partition table on it? I know for a fact that as it stands for wheezy,
that it will not accept, even if it can see it, another partitioners
partition tables. It absolutely has to write its own table and nothing
a human can concoct will ever suit it. Frankly, debian needs to get an
alaskan divorce from whatever its called and use gparted and be done
with it.
You have outlined a lot of complexity, and implied that it is all going
into one machine that you are trying to keep operational while you work
on it. That sounds difficult and risky.


I have been building x86 computers for my SOHO network for many years.
I have found that it is useful to have several computers running and
divide the functionality across them. This makes operations and
maintenance easier and more reliable:

1. One firewall/ router running a purpose-build Linux distribution:

http://www.ipcop.org/

2. One laptop with a small system drive (boot, swap, and root
partitions; Wheezy).

3. One file and version control server with a small system drive (as
above), plus a large HDD (one data partition).

4. One backup server/ workbench machine with a small system drive (as
above) and various hard drive mobile dock bays and I/O ports, plus
several large HDD's (one backup partition each).


If you must fit everything into one machine (firewall, desktop, bulk
data, backups), I would suggest removing all your drives (except
optical), installing a small system drive, installing and configuring
the OS, configuring the firewall, adding a 2 TB drive for bulk data,
restoring your data, setting up user accounts, adding a 2 TB drive for
backups, and importing your backups.


David
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-16 18:19:41 UTC
Permalink
[...]>
Post by David Christensen
You have outlined a lot of complexity, and implied that it is all
going into one machine that you are trying to keep operational while
you work on it. That sounds difficult and risky.
I have been building x86 computers for my SOHO network for many years.
I did also, until I discovered the atom based box for <$300 which are
great for a one stop solution for the machinery controls. So this
phenom box was my last real build, 8 years (nominally) ago.
Post by David Christensen
I have found that it is useful to have several computers running and
divide the functionality across them. This makes operations and
This is a good outline, but I am out of room in this packrats lair.
Post by David Christensen
http://www.ipcop.org/
Switch it for a router running dd.wrt.
Post by David Christensen
2. One laptop with a small system drive (boot, swap, and root
partitions; Wheezy).
I could probably bring in the lappy from the shop, it has mint 14 on it
at the moment. Bring it in and get an email agent working so I am not
exactly 100% locked out of help on the net. Some house cleaning is in
order to make room for it. Which I should probably get to already...
Post by David Christensen
3. One file and version control server with a small system drive (as
above), plus a large HDD (one data partition).
You then maintain your own local mirrors of the repos you need?
Post by David Christensen
4. One backup server/ workbench machine with a small system drive (as
above) and various hard drive mobile dock bays and I/O ports, plus
several large HDD's (one backup partition each).
Using amanda here, which has the bare metal recovery covered.
Post by David Christensen
If you must fit everything into one machine (firewall, desktop, bulk
data, backups), I would suggest removing all your drives (except
optical), installing a small system drive, installing and configuring
the OS, configuring the firewall, adding a 2 TB drive for bulk data,
restoring your data, setting up user accounts, adding a 2 TB drive for
backups, and importing your backups.
Small drive is relative, it will be a 1T Seagate thats about a year old.

This time I envision that 1T as a boot drive, the 2T as /home & /opt, and
temporarily another 1T for amanda. That drive is at about 65% of
capacity now & also has the shop machines included in its disklist.

But that drive now has >50,000 hours on it, so will likely be replaced by
the 2nd 2T I just bought, in due time of course.

Anything wrong?
Post by David Christensen
David
Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Christensen
2015-04-16 20:01:31 UTC
Permalink
... I discovered the atom based box for <$300 which are
great for a one stop solution for the machinery controls. So this
phenom box was my last real build, 8 years (nominally) ago.
Please tell us about your Atom box(es). (I've been eyeballing the
D2500CC for IPCop.)


What machinery?
Switch it for a router running dd.wrt.
I'd love to, but my Netgear FVS318G isn't supported.
I could probably bring in the lappy from the shop, it has mint 14 on it
at the moment. Bring it in and get an email agent working so I am not
exactly 100% locked out of help on the net. Some house cleaning is in
order to make room for it. Which I should probably get to already...
My ~1997 laptop has enough power to do simple desktop stuff, but not
much more. I'm starting to realize this is a good thing, because it
forces me to do my experiments on other machines. So, the laptop stays
simple and working.
You then maintain your own local mirrors of the repos you need?
I set up a 5 GB HTTP proxy and hosts entry in IPCop, and added a line to
/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70debconf in each machine:

Acquire::http::Proxy "http://proxy:8080";
Using amanda here, which has the bare metal recovery covered.
Small drive is relative, it will be a 1T Seagate thats about a year old.
This time I envision that 1T as a boot drive, the 2T as /home & /opt, and
temporarily another 1T for amanda. That drive is at about 65% of
capacity now & also has the shop machines included in its disklist.
But that drive now has >50,000 hours on it, so will likely be replaced by
the 2nd 2T I just bought, in due time of course.
So, 1 laptop, 1 desktop, 2 @ 1 TB drives (1 newer, 1 older), and 2 @ 2
TB drives (both new)? I assume the laptop has a HDD?


Do you know if the laptop or the desktop machine can use a USB flash
drive as the system drive? My 945 chipset and newer machines can do
this. It is one of the best cheap Linux tricks I've ever discovered. I
use the SanDisk Ultra Fit 16 GB USB 3.0, ($10.57 on Amazon), and they
perform at least as well as small 7200 RPM HDD's; even on USB 2.0 ports.


I would recommend:

1. Do a fresh install of Wheezy (!) with your favorite graphical
desktop on the laptop, and move into that as your personal workstation.

2. Get a small system drive for the Phenom box, do a fresh install of
Wheezy (!) with or without X/ window manager/ graphical desktop, use the
newer 1 TB drive for data, set up file serving (NFS, Samba, whatever),
use the older 1 TB drive for Amanda, and use the 2 TB drives for copies
of the Amanda archives (at least one off-site at all times).

3. Buy or build a machine you can mess with (Jessie, whatever), and
leave the other two alone.

4. Consider building another Wheezy box for Amanda.


David
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Ric Moore
2015-04-16 20:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
... I discovered the atom based box for <$300 which are
great for a one stop solution for the machinery controls. So this
phenom box was my last real build, 8 years (nominally) ago.
Please tell us about your Atom box(es). (I've been eyeballing the
D2500CC for IPCop.)
What machinery?
Gene has a special install for his CNC setup, with a RTS kernel. To me,
ole Gene needs one machine dedicated to that and offload desktop stuff
to another standard install.

Gene, regarding harddrive problems, check this out:
http://www.sj-vs.net/forcing-a-hard-disk-to-reallocate-bad-sectors/
I had one bad sector that gave everything else fits. This fixed it!
Scared me to do it, but nothing blew up on reboot. Just a thought. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 01:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
... I discovered the atom based box for <$300 which are
great for a one stop solution for the machinery controls. So this
phenom box was my last real build, 8 years (nominally) ago.
Please tell us about your Atom box(es). (I've been eyeballing the
D2500CC for IPCop.)
What machinery?
Gene has a special install for his CNC setup, with a RTAI kernel. To
me, ole Gene needs one machine dedicated to that and offload desktop
stuff to another standard install.
Actually Ric, ole Gene has two machines dedicated to running the
machinery and this is the one size fits all box. But I have to keep it
close enough kernelwise that it can run the LCNC simulator version in
userspace. So I can sit here in air conditioned comfort, write G-Code
to do a job, and exersize that code on this machine, cutting electronic
air. When I am happy it works, then load it on the real machinery and
make $400 worth of Mahogany and other considerably pricier stuff for
trim, into a blanket chest that I sent a pix of to my youngest, who took
a printout to work, and his co-workers all pronounced it to be "Wood
Porn" ;-) I can't help it if they are buying their furniture from
IKEA.
http://www.sj-vs.net/forcing-a-hard-disk-to-reallocate-bad-sectors/
I had one bad sector that gave everything else fits. This fixed it!
Scared me to do it, but nothing blew up on reboot. Just a thought. Ric
Today they will do that automatically, from a pool of sectors reserved
for that as they are made. You will not receive a notice that it has
happened until te drive is out of spare sectors.

I did have a file that reserved all the bad sectors on an original ST-238
on one of my coco's 25 years ago. I figured that when I got to the 40th,
I had only 8 slots left in the file descriptor and bought a maxtor 7120s
& a scsi interface. End of that "problem". :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Ric Moore
2015-04-17 08:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Ric Moore
http://www.sj-vs.net/forcing-a-hard-disk-to-reallocate-bad-sectors/
I had one bad sector that gave everything else fits. This fixed it!
Scared me to do it, but nothing blew up on reboot. Just a thought. Ric
Today they will do that automatically, from a pool of sectors reserved
for that as they are made. You will not receive a notice that it has
happened until te drive is out of spare sectors.
From what I was reading, that doesn't always happen. I just had one bad
sector, according to dmesg. My drive is no more than a year old. Yet,
every once in awhile I'd hear the drive go Ugh! Ugh! Scared me. I
followed the howto, and it runs nice and quiet. And slightly faster
without the Ugh! Ugh! and notices being written to the logs. Just the
one sector out of 1/2 gig.

"Modern hard disk drives are equipped with a small amount of spare
sectors to reallocate damaged sectors. However, a sector only gets
relocated when a write operation fails. A failing read operation will,
in most cases, only throw an I/O error. In the unlikely event a second
read does succeed, some disks perform a auto-reallocation and data is
preserved. In my case, the second read failed miserably (“Unrecovered
read error – auto reallocate failed“)." There you have it. If you run
into such, this is the cure. Just a FYI. Ric
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 10:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ric Moore
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Ric Moore
http://www.sj-vs.net/forcing-a-hard-disk-to-reallocate-bad-sectors/
I had one bad sector that gave everything else fits. This fixed it!
Scared me to do it, but nothing blew up on reboot. Just a thought. Ric
Today they will do that automatically, from a pool of sectors
reserved for that as they are made. You will not receive a notice
that it has happened until te drive is out of spare sectors.
From what I was reading, that doesn't always happen. I just had one
bad sector, according to dmesg. My drive is no more than a year old.
Yet, every once in awhile I'd hear the drive go Ugh! Ugh! Scared me. I
followed the howto, and it runs nice and quiet. And slightly faster
without the Ugh! Ugh! and notices being written to the logs. Just the
one sector out of 1/2 gig.
If the drive was that fresh, it may have been better to search the makers
site for a firmware update. I had all sorts of funkity things with
these 1T seagates, went to the seagate site and found there was a
firmware updater, downloaded it, it updated all 4 drives without losing
a single byte, and except for one that goes read-only on the first write
just recently, they all have north of 50k POH on them now.
I have not done that yet for this pair of 2T's, but since they
are "commodity drives", the need for a firmware update wouldn't surprise
me a bit. I haven't used them enough to see if they might be having a
session of hiccups yet.
Post by Ric Moore
"Modern hard disk drives are equipped with a small amount of spare
sectors to reallocate damaged sectors. However, a sector only gets
relocated when a write operation fails. A failing read operation will,
in most cases, only throw an I/O error. In the unlikely event a second
read does succeed, some disks perform a auto-reallocation and data is
preserved. In my case, the second read failed miserably (“Unrecovered
read error – auto reallocate failed“)."
Bad drive already if it was out of spare sectors at a year old, warranty
it.

And, install smartctl so you can keep track of the drives overall health.
Post by Ric Moore
There you have it. If you run
into such, this is the cure. Just a FYI. Ric
--
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 00:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
... I discovered the atom based box for <$300 which are
great for a one stop solution for the machinery controls. So this
phenom box was my last real build, 8 years (nominally) ago.
Please tell us about your Atom box(es). (I've been eyeballing the
D2500CC for IPCop.)
They were the Intel D525MW boards, in a box made by ARK, a subsidiary of
Intel. Running an RTAI patched kernel, wit hyperthreading disabled an a
kernel argument of "isolcpus=1", the IRQ latency is about 2 u-s at the
halfway mark on the bell curve.
Post by David Christensen
What machinery?
Cnc, aka Computer Numerically Controlled, for metal or wood cutting
machinery, lathes or milling machines, I have one of each.>
Post by David Christensen
Switch it for a router running dd.wrt.
I'd love to, but my Netgear FVS318G isn't supported.
I could probably bring in the lappy from the shop, it has mint 14 on
it at the moment. Bring it in and get an email agent working so I
am not exactly 100% locked out of help on the net. Some house
cleaning is in order to make room for it. Which I should probably
get to already...
My ~1997 laptop has enough power to do simple desktop stuff, but not
much more. I'm starting to realize this is a good thing, because it
forces me to do my experiments on other machines. So, the laptop
stays simple and working.
I am of that same opinion, as long as the battery doesn't explode I'm
fine. That OEM battery is now north of a decade old so I fully expect
the in-cord psu will upchuck trying to charge it one of these fine days.
Post by David Christensen
You then maintain your own local mirrors of the repos you need?
I set up a 5 GB HTTP proxy and hosts entry in IPCop, and added a line
Acquire::http::Proxy "http://proxy:8080";
Using amanda here, which has the bare metal recovery covered.
Small drive is relative, it will be a 1T Seagate thats about a year
old. This time I envision that 1T as a boot drive, the 2T as /home &
/opt, and temporarily another 1T for amanda. That drive is at about
65% of capacity now & also has the shop machines included in its
disklist. But that drive now has >50,000 hours on it, so will likely
be replaced by the 2nd 2T I just bought, in due time of course.
TB drives (both new)? I assume the laptop has a HDD?
100Gigs. Hasn't sneezed (yet).
Post by David Christensen
Do you know if the laptop or the desktop machine can use a USB flash
drive as the system drive? My 945 chipset and newer machines can do
this. It is one of the best cheap Linux tricks I've ever discovered.
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
Post by David Christensen
I use the SanDisk Ultra Fit 16 GB USB 3.0, ($10.57 on Amazon), and
they perform at least as well as small 7200 RPM HDD's; even on USB 2.0
ports.
My old Asus board does not support that AFAIK.
Post by David Christensen
1. Do a fresh install of Wheezy (!) with your favorite graphical
desktop on the laptop, and move into that as your personal
workstation.
2. Get a small system drive for the Phenom box, do a fresh install of
Wheezy (!) with or without X/ window manager/ graphical desktop, use
the newer 1 TB drive for data, set up file serving (NFS, Samba,
whatever), use the older 1 TB drive for Amanda, and use the 2 TB
drives for copies of the Amanda archives (at least one off-site at all
times).
If I need an offsite, that event will probably coincide with my demise.
At 80, I am well aware that waking up in the morning is an excuse to
celebrate. ;-)
Post by David Christensen
3. Buy or build a machine you can mess with (Jessie, whatever), and
leave the other two alone.
4. Consider building another Wheezy box for Amanda.
At this late date, I think the one box does it all is ok. The wife will
probably crawl under the desk and power down the room by pulling line
cords when I am gone. And has no interest in learning the technical
stuff. So if I am not here, its all moot.
Post by David Christensen
David
Cheers David, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Petter Adsen
2015-04-17 06:33:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:50:13 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
Do you know if the laptop or the desktop machine can use a USB flash
drive as the system drive? My 945 chipset and newer machines can do
this. It is one of the best cheap Linux tricks I've ever
discovered.
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
Not any longer :) There are now Linux filesystems specifically for
flash memory - F2FS, for instance. ext4 isn't as bad on flash, either,
with the right mount options, and btrfs (if you dare use it) has
optimizations for it. I think wikipedia has more on those - there are
others.

It's a good option for installations, or a system drive that you can
boot in an emergency. They are also cheap enough that you can use them
as a system drive on a box altogether, and just replace it before/when
it goes bad.

Petter
--
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."
Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 09:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:50:13 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
Do you know if the laptop or the desktop machine can use a USB
flash drive as the system drive? My 945 chipset and newer
machines can do this. It is one of the best cheap Linux tricks
I've ever discovered.
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
Not any longer :) There are now Linux filesystems specifically for
flash memory - F2FS, for instance. ext4 isn't as bad on flash, either,
with the right mount options, and btrfs (if you dare use it) has
optimizations for it. I think wikipedia has more on those - there are
others.
It's a good option for installations, or a system drive that you can
boot in an emergency. They are also cheap enough that you can use them
as a system drive on a box altogether, and just replace it before/when
it goes bad.
Petter
Thats good to read Petter, thanks. I got burned a bit early on, running
dd-wrt on an x86 boxen from nothing but flash, It worked great, till the
flashes died, about 3 of the std sized 512 meggers in a month.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Petter Adsen
2015-04-17 10:19:31 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:54:08 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:50:13 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
Not any longer :) There are now Linux filesystems specifically for
flash memory - F2FS, for instance. ext4 isn't as bad on flash,
either, with the right mount options, and btrfs (if you dare use
it) has optimizations for it. I think wikipedia has more on those -
there are others.
It's a good option for installations, or a system drive that you can
boot in an emergency. They are also cheap enough that you can use
them as a system drive on a box altogether, and just replace it
before/when it goes bad.
Petter
Thats good to read Petter, thanks. I got burned a bit early on,
running dd-wrt on an x86 boxen from nothing but flash, It worked
great, till the flashes died, about 3 of the std sized 512 meggers in
a month.
Is that long ago? Flash memory has come a long way in recent years.

I'm running SSDs on my desktop, and them burning out is not something
I'm all that concerned about. Mounting with relatime is probably a good
idea, though.

Recently I bought a new router, and I've been just itching to install
DD-WRT on it, I made sure to check it was compatible before buying it.
The default firmware isn't bad, I'm just concerned about security, and
there are a few options I miss. Besides, it's running an ssh server on
the internal interface, for which I can't get a password or key :(

Petter
--
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."
Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 10:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:54:08 -0400
[...]
Post by Petter Adsen
Is that long ago? Flash memory has come a long way in recent years.
I'm running SSDs on my desktop, and them burning out is not something
I'm all that concerned about. Mounting with relatime is probably a
good idea, though.
At the time I set it up on a then elderly k6-iii box , 8+ years ago, it
was bleeding edge. I half expected to get cut. ;-)
Post by Petter Adsen
Recently I bought a new router, and I've been just itching to install
DD-WRT on it, I made sure to check it was compatible before buying it.
The default firmware isn't bad, I'm just concerned about security, and
there are a few options I miss. Besides, it's running an ssh server on
the internal interface, for which I can't get a password or key :(
Because you reset it from the defaults and forgot it? If not, and it
came out of the box that way, either reflash it before it ever sees a
network connection, or turn it back as defective.

When flashing, change the password, and the admin account name if you
can, but in either event, paint it on it so you can always get back into
it if its in your home & secure. And use 18+ char passwords, make the
blackhats work their butts raw to get into it.

Not to mention it quite likely has a NSA backdoor in it, separate from
the ssh. dd-wrt is clean AFAIK.
Post by Petter Adsen
Petter
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Petter Adsen
2015-04-17 11:46:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:49:42 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:54:08 -0400
[...]
Post by Petter Adsen
Is that long ago? Flash memory has come a long way in recent years.
I'm running SSDs on my desktop, and them burning out is not
something I'm all that concerned about. Mounting with relatime is
probably a good idea, though.
At the time I set it up on a then elderly k6-iii box , 8+ years ago,
it was bleeding edge. I half expected to get cut. ;-)
:-) Things have changed quite a bit in that intervening time, in the
case of flash usually for the better :)
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
Recently I bought a new router, and I've been just itching to
install DD-WRT on it, I made sure to check it was compatible before
buying it. The default firmware isn't bad, I'm just concerned about
security, and there are a few options I miss. Besides, it's running
an ssh server on the internal interface, for which I can't get a
password or key :(
Because you reset it from the defaults and forgot it? If not, and it
came out of the box that way, either reflash it before it ever sees a
network connection, or turn it back as defective.
Oh no, I haven't had anything to do with that. The ssh server isn't
even mentioned in the docs or in the web interface, there is no way to
shut it down. It is only running on the internal interface, though,
that's why I haven't flashed it yet. But I don't like it.

I asked the manufacturer for a key/password, but they wouldn't give it
to me. It's *my* damn router, I paid for it.

Another dumb thing is that the DDOS protection is only running on the
_internal_ interface. As I don't need anyone to keep me from
ICMP-flooding anyone else, that seems like a really stupid decision.
Post by Gene Heskett
When flashing, change the password, and the admin account name if you
can, but in either event, paint it on it so you can always get back
into it if its in your home & secure. And use 18+ char passwords,
make the blackhats work their butts raw to get into it.
Don't worry, I have locked it down as hard as I can, even though it
makes it a pain to connect new devices.

I use keepassx on Linux to keep track of passwords/logins etc, as I use
long, random passwords for everything. It's a nice little piece of
software. There is also an "official" KeePass v1 and v2, but they
require mono. The only thing I really miss in keepassx is the ability
to keep track of keys (ssh/gpg), so I use seahorse for that. If anyone
knows of something that will take care of both that has most of the
features of keepassx, I'm interested to know about it.
Post by Gene Heskett
Not to mention it quite likely has a NSA backdoor in it, separate
from the ssh. dd-wrt is clean AFAIK.
I think it's Chinese or Taiwanese, so it's probably the Communist Party
that has the backdoor :)

But thanks for your concern! :)

Petter
--
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."
Lisi Reisz
2015-04-17 13:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
I think it's Chinese or Taiwanese, so it's probably the Communist Party
that has the backdoor :)
The poor Tawanese! |ny dead ones must be turning in their graves. They are
more anti-communist than the USA!! They fought a nasty civil war against the
communists and didn't really concede defeat - they are the last territory to
fall, and haven't yet fallen.

Lisi
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Petter Adsen
2015-04-17 13:54:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:32:47 +0100
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Petter Adsen
I think it's Chinese or Taiwanese, so it's probably the Communist
Party that has the backdoor :)
The poor Tawanese! |ny dead ones must be turning in their graves.
They are more anti-communist than the USA!! They fought a nasty
civil war against the communists and didn't really concede defeat -
they are the last territory to fall, and haven't yet fallen.
Ooops! Sorry about that, then. I'm not at all informed on such things,
and was under the mistaken impression that they had gone the way of the
Tibetans. My apologies to the Taiwanese.

Petter
--
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"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 18:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lisi Reisz
Post by Petter Adsen
I think it's Chinese or Taiwanese, so it's probably the Communist
Party that has the backdoor :)
The poor Tawanese! |ny dead ones must be turning in their graves.
They are more anti-communist than the USA!! They fought a nasty civil
war against the communists and didn't really concede defeat - they are
the last territory to fall, and haven't yet fallen.
Lisi
And thats a statement I whole heartedly agree with.

Unfortunately, the mainland has rather effectively ensnared the Taiwanese
with an economical chokehold. If I should buy yet another machine to
run with LinuxCNC, I would happily pay a 10% premium for ball screws to
drive it with from a Taiwanese supplier, just on the rinciples of the
thing. But the mainland people now own that market, starving the
Taiwanese out of the running. And with our present administrations
attitude, there is not one damned thing I can do about it with my $700
when I can buy the whole kit minus motors from ebay, made on the
mainland, and in fact made very well. In the long view, the mainland
will win that war they've been posturing about for 60 years now, without
firing more than a ceremonial shot.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 16:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:49:42 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:54:08 -0400
[...]
Post by Petter Adsen
Is that long ago? Flash memory has come a long way in recent years.
I'm running SSDs on my desktop, and them burning out is not
something I'm all that concerned about. Mounting with relatime is
probably a good idea, though.
At the time I set it up on a then elderly k6-iii box , 8+ years ago,
it was bleeding edge. I half expected to get cut. ;-)
:-) Things have changed quite a bit in that intervening time, in the
case of flash usually for the better :)
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
Recently I bought a new router, and I've been just itching to
install DD-WRT on it, I made sure to check it was compatible
before buying it. The default firmware isn't bad, I'm just
concerned about security, and there are a few options I miss.
Besides, it's running an ssh server on the internal interface, for
which I can't get a password or key :(
Because you reset it from the defaults and forgot it? If not, and
it came out of the box that way, either reflash it before it ever
sees a network connection, or turn it back as defective.
Oh no, I haven't had anything to do with that. The ssh server isn't
even mentioned in the docs or in the web interface, there is no way to
shut it down. It is only running on the internal interface, though,
that's why I haven't flashed it yet. But I don't like it.
Ok, I would advise you get that with dd-wrt too, and its possible I
believe to set a different admin/passwd for it, but that may depend on
how much room the is in the flashrom to do that.
Post by Petter Adsen
I asked the manufacturer for a key/password, but they wouldn't give it
to me. It's *my* damn router, I paid for it.
Most routers have a default admin/passwd setup, well known unfortunately,
so the first thing you do is change whatever it will allow to to change
just so you really do own the SOB. Mostly admin/admin. Assinine IMO.
Sometimes its only the passwd you can change. And I have run into such
that had a passwd length limit and silently threw away the surplus, in
which case you take the one you thought you set, shorten the right end
of it till the thing works, and correct your records. Once it took the
last x characters and I had to take them off the front to get back in.
Somebody on the 3rd floor must have thought that hiding such details
made it more secure. Hello? They ought to have been dumped out of that
3rd floor window IMO.
Post by Petter Adsen
Another dumb thing is that the DDOS protection is only running on the
_internal_ interface. As I don't need anyone to keep me from
ICMP-flooding anyone else, that seems like a really stupid decision.
Agreed.
Post by Petter Adsen
Post by Gene Heskett
When flashing, change the password, and the admin account name if
you can, but in either event, paint it on it so you can always get
back into it if its in your home & secure. And use 18+ char
passwords, make the blackhats work their butts raw to get into it.
Don't worry, I have locked it down as hard as I can, even though it
makes it a pain to connect new devices.
There is that too.
Post by Petter Adsen
I use keepassx on Linux to keep track of passwords/logins etc, as I
use long, random passwords for everything. It's a nice little piece of
software. There is also an "official" KeePass v1 and v2, but they
require mono. The only thing I really miss in keepassx is the ability
to keep track of keys (ssh/gpg), so I use seahorse for that. If anyone
knows of something that will take care of both that has most of the
features of keepassx, I'm interested to know about it.
Post by Gene Heskett
Not to mention it quite likely has a NSA backdoor in it, separate
from the ssh. dd-wrt is clean AFAIK.
I think it's Chinese or Taiwanese, so it's probably the Communist
Party that has the backdoor :)
But thanks for your concern! :)
Petter
Yeah, but if we ALL made the net secure, the NSA wouldn't just have cows,
they would have Brontosaurus's. Asshats all, regardless of the native
tongue.

Take Care Petter.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Ric Moore
2015-04-17 19:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 06:49:42 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by Petter Adsen
Recently I bought a new router, and I've been just itching to
install DD-WRT on it, I made sure to check it was compatible before
buying it. The default firmware isn't bad, I'm just concerned about
security, and there are a few options I miss. Besides, it's running
an ssh server on the internal interface, for which I can't get a
password or key :(
Because you reset it from the defaults and forgot it? If not, and it
came out of the box that way, either reflash it before it ever sees a
network connection, or turn it back as defective.
Can we change the subject line? No one would find this discussion about
routers.
--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
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Curt
2015-04-18 15:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Thats good to read Petter, thanks. I got burned a bit early on, running
dd-wrt on an x86 boxen from nothing but flash, It worked great, till the
flashes died, about 3 of the std sized 512 meggers in a month.
I suppose much of what holds for minimizing disk read/writes for flash is more or
less what holds for an SSD?

(Is it just me or are these Arch wikies the best wikies in town?)

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SSD#Tips_for_minimizing_disk_reads.2Fwrites
Post by Gene Heskett
Cheers, Gene Heskett
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David Christensen
2015-04-17 16:31:02 UTC
Permalink
[The Atom computers boxes] were the Intel D525MW boards, in a box made by ARK, a subsidiary of
Intel. Running an RTAI patched kernel, wit hyperthreading disabled an a
kernel argument of "isolcpus=1", the IRQ latency is about 2 u-s at the
halfway mark on the bell curve.
...
[The machinery is] Cnc, aka Computer Numerically Controlled, for metal or wood cutting
machinery, lathes or milling machines, I have one of each.
[I have] two machines dedicated to running the machinery and [the
Asus/Phenom computer] is the one size fits all box. But I have to
keep it close enough kernelwise that it can run the LCNC simulator
version in userspace.
So, two D525MW Atom computers running Linux with an RTAI patched kernel,
the Asus/ Phenom computer is part of your CNC workflow, and you have
software that needs to run on all of them.


The simple answer would seem to be to run the same Linux distribution,
kernel, and RTAI patch on all three computers. What Linux distribution
and kernel do you run on the Atom computers?
I am of that same opinion [of using a laptop as a personal laptop
and keeping it stable], as long as the battery doesn't explode I'm
fine. That OEM battery is now north of a decade old so I fully
expect the in-cord psu will upchuck trying to charge it one of these
fine days.
[The laptop hard drive is] 100Gigs. Hasn't sneezed (yet).
My old Asus board does not support [using a USB flash drive as the
bootable system drive] AFAIK.
You might want to try the USB system drive trick in all of the computers
(Atom, Phenom, and laptop) to see if it works. If so, you have more
options.


How long will that battery power the laptop?


If you remove the battery, will the PSU run the laptop?
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
I've been running SanDisk Ultra Fit flash drives as system drives for a
few months in four machines. So far, so good. It will be interesting
to see how they degrade and/or die.
If I need an offsite, that event will probably coincide with my
demise. At 80, I am well aware that waking up in the morning is an
excuse to celebrate. ;-)
At this late date, I think the one box does it all is ok.
Okay, "all the eggs in one basket". So, either a USB flash drive or the
newer 1 TB drive as the system drive, migrate your data to a new 2 TB
drive, migrate the Amanda archives to the other new 2 TB drive, and then
keep the older 1 TB drive as a spare or use it as an on-site copy of the
Amanda archives.


I still think it's a good idea to move your personal desktop into the
laptop. If you use an IMAP mail server and keep your mail there, you
can get to it from any machine with an IMAP mail client.


Our home was burglarized in January. Thankfully, vital documents were
in a safe deposit box at the bank. The burglars took cash, jewelry,
perfume, collectibles, cameras, a game console, a game, etc.. The
burglars didn't mess with my computers or backups, but I was glad I had
off-site backups anyway -- I have 20+ years of computer programs,
documents, and data that would be difficult, expensive, and time
consuming to replace.


David
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Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 18:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Christensen
[The Atom computers boxes] were the Intel D525MW boards, in a box
made by ARK, a subsidiary of Intel. Running an RTAI patched kernel,
wit hyperthreading disabled an a kernel argument of "isolcpus=1",
the IRQ latency is about 2 u-s at the halfway mark on the bell
curve.
...
[The machinery is] Cnc, aka Computer Numerically Controlled, for
metal or wood cutting machinery, lathes or milling machines, I have
one of each.
[I have] two machines dedicated to running the machinery and [the
Asus/Phenom computer] is the one size fits all box. But I have to
keep it close enough kernelwise that it can run the LCNC simulator
version in userspace.
So, two D525MW Atom computers running Linux with an RTAI patched
kernel, the Asus/ Phenom computer is part of your CNC workflow, and
you have software that needs to run on all of them.
The simple answer would seem to be to run the same Linux distribution,
kernel, and RTAI patch on all three computers. What Linux
distribution and kernel do you run on the Atom computers?
That distro is based on Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS in its most recent
incarnation. Its kernel is SMP, but not PAE because the PAE slows it
considerably. That kernel, running on this machine, only see's 3G's of
the 8G of dram in this machine, and with this ones do all workload, is
typically north of 600 megs into swap in 12 hours. The atom boards, with
only 2G of dram and none of the stuff running here on those machines, do
not get noticeably into swap even for months long uptimes. The milling
machine shows 22 days of upotime, and 1 megabyte in swap according to
htop right now. It has 263 tasks running. Easy on those machines as
they might run 30 watts of power max. The rest of the working machinery
uses 100x that, so is shut down when not in use.

This machine by comparison has 138 tasks, a phenominally low number but
some of the background stuff like drivewire, is not running currently.
And with 8G of dram, it is 86 megs into swap in a day & change.

But it is not an RTAI patched kernel. Not needed here as this one never
cuts anything but electronic air, so the simulated build of the same
LinuxCNC works well for generating and testing the code I write. But
even that takes an rt-preempt kernel.
Post by David Christensen
I am of that same opinion [of using a laptop as a personal laptop
and keeping it stable], as long as the battery doesn't explode I'm
fine. That OEM battery is now north of a decade old so I fully
expect the in-cord psu will upchuck trying to charge it one of
these fine days.
[The laptop hard drive is] 100Gigs. Hasn't sneezed (yet).
My old Asus board does not support [using a USB flash drive as the
bootable system drive] AFAIK.
You might want to try the USB system drive trick in all of the
computers (Atom, Phenom, and laptop) to see if it works. If so, you
have more options.
How long will that battery power the laptop?
2 seconds max. ;-) I said it was old...
Post by David Christensen
If you remove the battery, will the PSU run the laptop?
An experiment I have not performed yet.
Post by David Christensen
With limited life of the flash, linux filesystems are hell on flash.
I've been running SanDisk Ultra Fit flash drives as system drives for
a few months in four machines. So far, so good. It will be
interesting to see how they degrade and/or die.
If I need an offsite, that event will probably coincide with my
demise. At 80, I am well aware that waking up in the morning is an
excuse to celebrate. ;-)
At this late date, I think the one box does it all is ok.
Okay, "all the eggs in one basket". So, either a USB flash drive or
the newer 1 TB drive as the system drive, migrate your data to a new 2
TB drive, migrate the Amanda archives to the other new 2 TB drive, and
then keep the older 1 TB drive as a spare or use it as an on-site copy
of the Amanda archives.
The 1T drive is a great plenty for an install. And a 1T partition
for /opt and a 1T partition for /home on a 2T seems about as expansion
proof as I can make it barring shooting a few more weddings with my
movie camera. Those files are some north of a gigabyte per running
minute.
Post by David Christensen
I still think it's a good idea to move your personal desktop into the
laptop. If you use an IMAP mail server and keep your mail there, you
can get to it from any machine with an IMAP mail client.
I hate the lappies keyboard with my weiner sized fingers, and the utility
that used to kill the touch pad seems to have quite working. It is
unusable without killing the touchpad.
Post by David Christensen
Our home was burglarized in January. Thankfully, vital documents were
in a safe deposit box at the bank. The burglars took cash, jewelry,
perfume, collectibles, cameras, a game console, a game, etc.. The
burglars didn't mess with my computers or backups, but I was glad I
had off-site backups anyway -- I have 20+ years of computer programs,
documents, and data that would be difficult, expensive, and time
consuming to replace.
There an echo in here, with some of mine going back more than 30 years.
But we have good neighbors and I expect the burglars would meet with
police or other armed interference about the 2nd load of stuff carried
to their vehicle. Even at 3AM if we were in NY at her nieces place. The
ONLY thing that has come up missing in 25+ years here is a lithium
powered electric drill that I bought a bit over a year ago. And its
probably my fault, miss-laid at the end of a job right here on the
property and subsequently covered by newer debris. I bought another
just like it 2 months back. So now I have 2 chargers and 3 batteries
for it.
Post by David Christensen
David
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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Petter Adsen
2015-04-17 19:09:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:54:26 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
Okay, "all the eggs in one basket". So, either a USB flash drive or
the newer 1 TB drive as the system drive, migrate your data to a
new 2 TB drive, migrate the Amanda archives to the other new 2 TB
drive, and then keep the older 1 TB drive as a spare or use it as
an on-site copy of the Amanda archives.
The 1T drive is a great plenty for an install. And a 1T partition
for /opt and a 1T partition for /home on a 2T seems about as
expansion proof as I can make it barring shooting a few more weddings
with my movie camera. Those files are some north of a gigabyte per
running minute.
Just a suggestion: have you considered running LVM on (some of) your
new drives? Like, on a 2T drive, set 500G or whatever you need
for /opt, a good amount of space for /home, and leave a great chunk for
future expansion where you may need it? Then you also have the ability
to take a snapshot of /home for when you run your backups, as to make
sure you get a consistent image?

If need be, you can also expand your LVM volume group later with
additional drives.

It's easy to set up and work with, and very flexible. Quite a benefit
on huge, modern drives.

If you want to be expansion proof, as you say, then this is a good way
of doing just that.

Petter
--
"I'm ionized"
"Are you sure?"
"I'm positive."
Gene Heskett
2015-04-17 19:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Petter Adsen
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:54:26 -0400
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
Okay, "all the eggs in one basket". So, either a USB flash drive
or the newer 1 TB drive as the system drive, migrate your data to
a new 2 TB drive, migrate the Amanda archives to the other new 2
TB drive, and then keep the older 1 TB drive as a spare or use it
as an on-site copy of the Amanda archives.
The 1T drive is a great plenty for an install. And a 1T partition
for /opt and a 1T partition for /home on a 2T seems about as
expansion proof as I can make it barring shooting a few more
weddings with my movie camera. Those files are some north of a
gigabyte per running minute.
Just a suggestion: have you considered running LVM on (some of) your
new drives? Like, on a 2T drive, set 500G or whatever you need
for /opt, a good amount of space for /home, and leave a great chunk
for future expansion where you may need it? Then you also have the
ability to take a snapshot of /home for when you run your backups, as
to make sure you get a consistent image?
If need be, you can also expand your LVM volume group later with
additional drives.
It's easy to set up and work with, and very flexible. Quite a benefit
on huge, modern drives.
If you want to be expansion proof, as you say, then this is a good way
of doing just that.
Petter
I might look into it. My last foray into that territory was with a
fedora install, single digit version and it was a lost it all disaster.
And I never did learn what actually failed. But I am now a bit wary of
LVM's in general.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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David Christensen
2015-04-17 20:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
The simple answer would seem to be to run the same Linux distribution,
kernel, and RTAI patch on all three computers. What Linux
distribution and kernel do you run on the Atom computers?
That distro is based on Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS in its most recent
incarnation. Its kernel is SMP, but not PAE because the PAE slows it
considerably. That kernel, running on this machine, only see's 3G's of
the 8G of dram in this machine, and with this ones do all workload, is
typically north of 600 megs into swap in 12 hours. The atom boards, with
only 2G of dram and none of the stuff running here on those machines, do
not get noticeably into swap even for months long uptimes. The milling
machine shows 22 days of upotime, and 1 megabyte in swap according to
htop right now. It has 263 tasks running. Easy on those machines as
they might run 30 watts of power max. The rest of the working machinery
uses 100x that, so is shut down when not in use.
This machine by comparison has 138 tasks, a phenominally low number but
some of the background stuff like drivewire, is not running currently.
And with 8G of dram, it is 86 megs into swap in a day & change.
But it is not an RTAI patched kernel. Not needed here as this one never
cuts anything but electronic air, so the simulated build of the same
LinuxCNC works well for generating and testing the code I write. But
even that takes an rt-preempt kernel.
So, the development computer (Phenom) cannot run the same kernel and/or
patches as the production computers (Atom). As Ubuntu is based on
Debian, I guess there's enough similarity that the necessary programs
work on both.
Post by Gene Heskett
Post by David Christensen
How long will that battery power the laptop?
2 seconds max. ;-) I said it was old...
Post by David Christensen
If you remove the battery, will the PSU run the laptop?
An experiment I have not performed yet.
It's time to recycle that battery and find out if the PSU can run the
laptop without a battery.
Post by Gene Heskett
I hate the lappies keyboard with my weiner sized fingers, and the
utility that used to kill the touch pad seems to have quite working.
It is unusable without killing the touchpad.
I use a KVM switch with a mechanical keyboard, optical wheel mouse, and
LCD/LED monitor for most of my machines, including the laptop.


Perhaps it's time to recycle the whole laptop.
Post by Gene Heskett
But we have good neighbors and I expect the burglars would meet with
police or other armed interference about the 2nd load of stuff carried
to their vehicle.
There were 2 inside men and 1 lookout/ getaway driver. They probably
had ~20 minutes and got ~4 bags before a neighbor drove up, spotted
them, and charged. He's lucky they saw him coming and drove off, rather
than attacking or killing him. It would have been smarter to just call 911.


David
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David Wright
2015-04-17 16:33:22 UTC
Permalink
[I'm hoping this isn't a duplicate post, but my first
attempt was rejected by bendel.debian.org as forged.]

My goodness, I've just been rapped over the knuckles (privately) for
not trimming the last 17 lines of my post, even though there was a
reference to them in my text. This to someone who tidies quotations by
deleting unnecessary blank lines, and reconstructing lines broken by
overenthusiastic line-wrappers (including my own). Jeez. Why bother?

Cheers,
David.
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